Pretty sure they are leaving already. But just in coffins like Israel wanted.
Israel is an evil country. Israel is the country with the most war criminals per capita. If the Israeli people do not do something significant in the coming months, they will be complicit in the atrocities committed by the IDF.
They need to be taught the same hard lesson Germany, Italy, and Japan had to be taught 80 years ago. Genocidal fascism has no place on Earth.
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Good. Israel can get a new exodus.
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Leave where? The Mediterranean?
Like a… Pogrom?
A big genocidal pogrom. The biggest pogrom.
United States of Aipac will approve, does not matter reps or dems.
European sanctions also apparently never.
I hope one day the same will happen to Israel and Israelians and I hope no one will care anymore.
Or here’s a novel thought: how about we start hoping for bad shit to not happen? The cycle of revenge and “I deserve this land because X” is how we ended up in this situation in the first place.
No, we ended up in this situation because colonizers came and stole Palestinian land. It’s an Israeli myth that Palestinians first stole the land from the Jews and expelled them.
The truth is, Palestinians are just descendents of ancient Israelis. They’re not invaders. They’re indigenous to the land.
The truth is, you’ve completely ignored my point. Genocide as a response to genocide solves nothing.
Sure, Israel should be abolished peacefully.
I’m just saying, this isn’t how we got here.
What fantasy land do you live in where the involuntary dismantling of a country is ever a peaceful process?
Decolonization can be done peacefully.
I don’t think that will happen, but it could!
I also support Palestinian resistance, and that’s very different from Israeli violence inflicted onto Palestinians. Indigenous resistance to colonization is always justified.
Decolonization can be done peacefully.
50 years ago you might have had a chance to make it happen, since most Israeli people would have been born elsewhere. Now you have multiple generations of people born and raised in Israel. They have nowhere else to go.
And you’ll have to forgive me for being skeptical about a Muslim majority Palestine being tolerant of religious differences if they regained control of the whole area.
Settler colonialism is how we ended up in this situation. There is no ‘both sides’ when one is engaging in supremacy and genocide while the other is resisting eradication and fighting for their human rights
Edit:
For the people who are downvoting. Equating the violence here is the same as equating the violence in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising. It’s been over 76 years of violent apartheid, supremacy, and ethnic cleansing.
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai, an Israeli, has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
You’re getting down voted because you’ve missed the point. It doesn’t matter why the current situation is happening, calling for genocide as a response to genocide makes you just as guilty as the people you hate.
Kami is, which is why I downvoted them.
Palestinian resistance is not calling for genocide.
I feel like I’m talking to a bot. All of your responses are at best tangentially related to what I say.
You blamed the current situation on the ‘cycle of revenge,’ which grossly misrepresents the reality of Zionism and the reaction of Palestinian resistance.
And you keep ignoring the point that it doesn’t fucking matter. You can’t solve genocide with more genocide.
To all those who stood up against “Genocide Joe”:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your internet slacktivism has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
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You and everyone who repeats the “I hope you’re happy now” really are not helping. You’re mad, I’m mad, but please please get your fill of catharsis/smug self righteousness elsewhere please, blaming non/voters isn’t going to rebuild the Obama coalition that delivered a supermajority in Congress. The Democrats lost the youth turnout, Palestine (Russian/astroturf bots or no) were not the sole factor but a sharp tipping point that laid out reality bare.
Im not at all surprised that young voters who became politically aware during the Obama era or later were gradually disenchanted and sat this round out; when you look at it from their timeline they did all the right democracy things and got shit on over and over
- Organic enthusiasm for Bernie in the primary, sabotaged by superdelegates - your vote doesn’t matter, we pick not you plebs and in their mind that action brought Trump 2016
- George Floyd’s livestreamed murder and BLM protests - no structural change or even federal police reform passed
- The kids yet again come out and do the right thing by voting Biden in 2020, and watch more politicking and focus-tested soft liberalism rule the day. Rail strike busted. East Palestine spill without serious investigation or reform. Debt ceiling negotiations and kowtowing - everything will stay the same
- Oct 7 happens, then the Israeli bombing campaign begins and Biden openly castigates activists and doubles down on supplying the IDF - how dare you plebs question your leader
- Protests persist, organize and clearly make their demands known, even send a warning shot in the primary… receiving only empty words from leadership - they are not going to do what you want
- The DNC platforms two Jewish parents of a Hamas hostage at the convention, but refuses to allow a Dem Rep to speak with pre-vetted remarks - we don’t even want to hear from you
And nothing substantial happened that might change their mind. Kamala rode that same trajectory through her campaign, even as VP she had a harder stance on Israel that suddenly evaporated once she was appointed the nominee.
Its genocide - the crime of all crimes - and the Democratic Party refused to seriously discuss the topic in public. I cannot seriously blame them for giving up on a party that refused to listen to them in good faith, and disappointed them time after time. That’s on the DNC for throwing that demographic away, and we need to recognize that. They’re not voting for Republicans ffs but they’ve received the message that they and their vote, isn’t important to the Democrats.
Absolutely this.
Anyone denying the clear signals of despair from young voters is coping. Idk why anyone is getting mad at people demanding progress from dems at a time when there’s no risk of electoral losses - makes me think those people are actually just carrying water for ani-reform neoliberal fascists.
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have.
It’s Trump, no matter who the dems put up you weren’t voting for them, you were voting against a rapist, pedophile traitor.
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
Fucking yes. I cannot believe we’re even having this argument. Nothing comes close.
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have
I am absolutely not trying to downplay the barbarity and wanton cruelty of the Trump administration’s policies, but what we’ve seen so far doesn’t match the definition. Extrajudicial disappearances and zero due process for perceived or actual migrants is not the same thing as genocide. There’s no forced sterilization, rote murder, mass displacement, or deliberate attempt to destroy a collective people. CECOT is an overseas concentration camp, not a death camp - yet.
…
Dodged right around the mass graves?
The kidnapped children?
The destruction of culture through russification?
I don’t quite understand your argument here, all of those crimes fall under the umbrella term of genocide as well.
Yet the only ‘genocide’ lemmy will talk about is palestine.
I’ve seen a lot of mentions of other genocides on my instance, but what’s notable about the Palestinian genocide is that the US and the western world is directly involved in it.
Typically when I see this complaint it’s paired with a general vibe of wanting to deflect attention away from western atrocities. Not that I know enough to accuse you of that, but still.
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I see absolutely zero indication of this being right-wing propaganda.
You need to learn how to spot it better then
^ This is what forum sliding looks like disguised as progressive concern.
no, it’s not.
Fuck every one of you and I’m not putting in any more effort to keep the shit out of lemmy
thank God
Wow you’re post history is so rancid I’m blocking your entire instance
thank God
To all those who stood with Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your support for genocide helped usher in Trump & has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
The cope of liberals thinking that Kamela ‘most lethal military’ Harris was going to be any different on foreign policy are brain dead.
Compared to the 5d megabrain who thinks she would have threatened to invade Greenland and Canada while making friends with Russia.
Honestly I prefer that. Isolating the empire and getting the rest of the world against the country facilitating genocide is good to me.
So wait, you want the US to oppose genocide, or you want them to commit more so everyone hates them?
You have to pick one.
If there isn’t a choice in whether the genocide support happens, I prefer the US to weaken and isolate itself globally by kneecaping its relations with other western nations.
If I said, I prefer Nazi Germany to not have allies while they are committing the final solution, I think you would understand why I have this position.
…
Cool…
Now you have many genocides, well done.
The genocide in America (of course, mostly of brown people, so don’t let that trouble you, it’s more of a concern for people like me and my family), the genocide in Ukraine, again, not your problem…
Glad you’ve decided only 1 genocide matters, the rest, meh, not worth your time.
You underestimate the damage that can be done in the ensuing vacuum.
From food security to physical security, impact will be severe.
Never mind that the next superpowers in line to take the mantle are totalitarian ethnostates.
Honestly, who the hell cares.
Americans of every race made their choice in 2024 and there’s no point in speculating what the losing party would have done.
The reality is what it is and we’re under Trump now.
As long as those Americans understand what their vote was for and can live with it, that’s what matters and I’m 100% okay with my vote and I can live with it.
I care.
More importantly, as a non-white American watching a genocide start at home, it very much matters who and what people voted (or didn’t vote) for.
What really pisses me off is people saying democrats would have been just as bad, while we watch people drug off by thugs in black body armor to El Salvador to die without due process.
I think it’s safe to speculate that that wouldn’t have happened under the alternative.
I’m trying to understand where you are coming from. In the general elections, I voted for Harris and Clinton after voting against them in primaries. The thing about voting and elections is that there are hundreds of variables involved, and focusing on one to pin blame on a sliver of the electorate doesn’t seem like thoughtful analysis or productive to an oppositional cause.
You can point to turnouts and results from specific counties until your finger dries up and falls off, but that only highlights a neglect regarding myriad other factors that contribute to results. My opinion is that the Harris campaign ran the race the way they thought best and they lost. They lost. Sure, in sense we all lost, but they were the ones driving the bus.
We aren’t children without agency, they aren’t singers on American idol.
They had policy manifestos, they were explicit about them.
And the voices screaming to ignore everything else and focus only on Palestine as the only variable that mattered, in unison, with almost perfect resonance with Russian troll farms (curious given Russia’s close ties with both Iran and hamas in the lead up to october 7, and their use of Gaza to distract the west from support for Ukraine).
We’re being played like puppets, and nobody is willing to admit there are malicious actors at work who benefit.
Yeah as a brown immigrant also in the US…get over it. This was inevitable; were just speedrunning it. I know you’re hurting and want to expel that pain, but you really need to figure out how to channel it into something constructive instead of whining on the Internet.
Fuck that, I escaped the vile shit hole of the south, now I’m escaping to Europe.
I’ve lived everywhere, I can manage.
But, you see…
I’M NOT THE ONLY MOTHER FUCKER THIS IS HAPPENING TOO!!! AND MOST OF THE REST AREN’T SO FORTUNATE YOU THOUGHTLESS PRICK!!!
Oh no all caps! I’ll never recover from this
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Maybe people wouldn’t call him “Genocide Joe” if he hadn’t backed a genocide. I always find it amazing that people blame the voters, instead of blaming the people with the power, the platform, and the money, who chose genocide over winning the election.
I always find it amazing that people blame the voters
I think people are blaming the people who didn’t vote. They thought they were sending the message “I don’t like genocide”, but that was ignorant of them.
The message they sent was “Eh, either is fine. I’m fine with Trump or Harris. Whatever”. And then they took the moral high ground for doing so.
Which I also find understandable. I disagree with non-voters, but if both choices are terrible, and fight against what you want, I understand why people wouldn’t want to vote.
The proper way to communicate an opinion that “both choices are terrible” is to make your way to the polling station and either vote for something other than those two bad choices, or to decline or spoil your ballot.
Not voting says “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”.
People think it means “Give me something other than these two”, but it takes more effort to communicate that message.
Political activism requires effort, and it requires effort the right way. Not voting is political inaction.
I mostly agree with you, which is why I voted 3rd party, and I still recommend that others vote. But voting can take a lot of time and effort, which most people are short on. I think a lot of people would vote, if they thought their vote counted, but with the two major parties we have, it clearly doesn’t.
I see it as less of “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”, and more of “Both of you fight against what I want, why would I bother”
why would I bother
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken, and it can send one of the biggest messages.
Democratically-elected politicians get their jobs by people’s votes. Their campaigns are based around getting votes. And they can look at numbers of how people are voting to adjust their platforms to capture those votes.
There’s little benefit for them to try to capture the votes of people who don’t vote because people who don’t vote aren’t likely to vote.
- 77,302,580 people voted for Trump.
- 89,278,948 people were eligible to vote but didn’t.
That’s enough to win an election. I know they wouldn’t all vote the same way, but that’s a HUGE population – enough to potentially make a third political party relevant, for instance.
I know that you vote, and I know both major parties in the US suck. I think we’re generally in agreement here, so I know I’m probably preaching to a member of the choir. I’m just less sympathetic about it because I know that if everyone in the US who was eligible to vote but didn’t all voted with their intentions, upcoming elections would look very different. And I think it’s a combination of learned helplessness/defeatism and laziness/apathy that’s causing this.
As such, I will always advocate for the power of voting. And I will always admonish people who don’t vote and complain about the result.
Yup, we are mostly in agreement. I will push back on this though:
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken
For a lot of people, taking a day off work, to spend hours in line at a polling booth, while voter intimidation is kind of allowed, is a lot of effort. Especially when you factor in that they need to spend time researching the candidates and issues they’ll be voting on. I’ve lived in places where even getting registered was a huge pain, and took a lot of time. Where I currently live, voting is super easy, and I appreciate that, and I think it’s less of an excuse. But for a lot of people, it does take a lot of effort, and I find not voting in those circumstances more understandable.
I understand why some people kill their families and then kill themselves.
I’ll still put forth that it’s bad, destructive, and wrong.
jsyk, the majority of ‘genocide joe’ social media posts were right wing propaganda
I mean sure there were some that chose not to vote because of Gaza, but the number doesn’t really make a difference in the final count.
More people abstained due to sexism honestly
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I’m not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide. I’ve never seen any stats showing that they were right-wing posts. Plenty of left-wing people were mad about that as well.
Hillary won the popular vote when she ran. I think most people abstained because Harris was a terrible candidate, who ran on terrible policies that went against what the voter-base wanted.
‘Genocide Joe’ was an alt-right psyop designed to catch up progressives with distaste for the realities of middle eastern politics
Either you are naive to propaganda, or are actively spreading it
It doesn’t really matter which is true though blocking you from my future lemmy experience serves to address both of your possible failings.
‘Genocide Joe’ was an alt-right psyop
this claim requires evidence. who, when, where?
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I’m not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide.
No centrist believes this because no centrist can imagine opposing the genocide that remains the single policy any of them are actually willing to stand for.
I hope I live to see Israel, in its current form, entirely destroyed. I want to believe that there are consequences to being this evil.
Its a noble dream. But for Israel to ever face justice their largest and fiercest backer - the nation that is often the only one that votes to protect them in UN votes, and the one that has almost singlehandedly turned them into a military superpower in the middle east - the USA - must get its house in order first.
There is zero chance of much changing on Israel while Republicans or the conservative wing of the Democrats are in power, and especially while Trump is president. That’s not to say it can’t change, but there are multiple hurdles: so, I hope you live a long time and see a lot of positive changes throughout your life.
The US doesn’t need to “get it’s house in order”.
It also needs to (and seems on the path to) be destroyed in its current form.
With global trade inevitably shifting away from the unstable US, Military embarrassments against small impoverished organizations like the houthis, and diplomacy entirely built around leveraging those 2 things…it seems much more likely the US turns into a nuclear armed former superpower than that it maintains it’s global status and changes to actually use said status for good.
