Israeli Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich says victory in Gaza will mean the enclave being "entirely destroyed," Palestinians leaving for other countries.
I’m not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide. I’ve never seen any stats showing that they were right-wing posts. Plenty of left-wing people were mad about that as well.
Hillary won the popular vote when she ran. I think most people abstained because Harris was a terrible candidate, who ran on terrible policies that went against what the voter-base wanted.
I’m not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide.
No centrist believes this because no centrist can imagine opposing the genocide that remains the single policy any of them are actually willing to stand for.
You and everyone who repeats the “I hope you’re happy now” really are not helping. You’re mad, I’m mad, but please please get your fill of catharsis/smug self righteousness elsewhere please, blaming non/voters isn’t going to rebuild the Obama coalition that delivered a supermajority in Congress. The Democrats lost the youth turnout, Palestine (Russian/astroturf bots or no) were not the sole factor but a sharp tipping point that laid out reality bare.
Im not at all surprised that young voters who became politically aware during the Obama era or later were gradually disenchanted and sat this round out; when you look at it from their timeline they did all the right democracy things and got shit on over and over
Organic enthusiasm for Bernie in the primary, sabotaged by superdelegates - your vote doesn’t matter, we pick not you plebs and in their mind that action brought Trump 2016
George Floyd’s livestreamed murder and BLM protests - no structural change or even federal police reform passed
The kids yet again come out and do the right thing by voting Biden in 2020, and watch more politicking and focus-tested soft liberalism rule the day. Rail strike busted. East Palestine spill without serious investigation or reform. Debt ceiling negotiations and kowtowing - everything will stay the same
Oct 7 happens, then the Israeli bombing campaign begins and Biden openly castigates activists and doubles down on supplying the IDF - how dare you plebs question your leader
Protests persist, organize and clearly make their demands known, even send a warning shot in the primary… receiving only empty words from leadership - they are not going to do what you want
The DNC platforms two Jewish parents of a Hamas hostage at the convention, but refuses to allow a Dem Rep to speak with pre-vetted remarks - we don’t even want to hear from you
And nothing substantial happened that might change their mind. Kamala rode that same trajectory through her campaign, even as VP she had a harder stance on Israel that suddenly evaporated once she was appointed the nominee.
Its genocide - the crime of all crimes - and the Democratic Party refused to seriously discuss the topic in public. I cannot seriously blame them for giving up on a party that refused to listen to them in good faith, and disappointed them time after time. That’s on the DNC for throwing that demographic away, and we need to recognize that. They’re not voting for Republicans ffs but they’ve received the message that they and their vote, isn’t important to the Democrats.
Fucking yes. I cannot believe we’re even having this argument. Nothing comes close.
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have
I am absolutely not trying to downplay the barbarity and wanton cruelty of the Trump administration’s policies, but what we’ve seen so fardoesn’t match the definition. Extrajudicial disappearances and zero due process for perceived or actual migrants is not the same thing as genocide. There’s no forced sterilization, rote murder, mass displacement, or deliberate attempt to destroy a collective people. CECOT is an overseas concentration camp, not a death camp - yet.
I’ve seen a lot of mentions of other genocides on my instance, but what’s notable about the Palestinian genocide is that the US and the western world is directly involved in it.
Typically when I see this complaint it’s paired with a general vibe of wanting to deflect attention away from western atrocities. Not that I know enough to accuse you of that, but still.
^ This is what forum sliding looks like disguised as progressive concern. Block and move on
edit: I’m pointing out right wing propaganda and I get downvoted? Fuck every one of you and I’m not putting in any more effort to keep the shit out of lemmy
Maybe people wouldn’t call him “Genocide Joe” if he hadn’t backed a genocide. I always find it amazing that people blame the voters, instead of blaming the people with the power, the platform, and the money, who chose genocide over winning the election.
I always find it amazing that people blame the voters
I think people are blaming the people who didn’t vote. They thought they were sending the message “I don’t like genocide”, but that was ignorant of them.
The message they sent was “Eh, either is fine. I’m fine with Trump or Harris. Whatever”. And then they took the moral high ground for doing so.
Which I also find understandable. I disagree with non-voters, but if both choices are terrible, and fight against what you want, I understand why people wouldn’t want to vote.
The proper way to communicate an opinion that “both choices are terrible” is to make your way to the polling station and either vote for something other than those two bad choices, or to decline or spoil your ballot.
Not voting says “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”.
People think it means “Give me something other than these two”, but it takes more effort to communicate that message.
Political activism requires effort, and it requires effort the right way. Not voting is political inaction.
I mostly agree with you, which is why I voted 3rd party, and I still recommend that others vote. But voting can take a lot of time and effort, which most people are short on. I think a lot of people would vote, if they thought their vote counted, but with the two major parties we have, it clearly doesn’t.
I see it as less of “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”, and more of “Both of you fight against what I want, why would I bother”
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken, and it can send one of the biggest messages.
Democratically-elected politicians get their jobs by people’s votes. Their campaigns are based around getting votes. And they can look at numbers of how people are voting to adjust their platforms to capture those votes.
There’s little benefit for them to try to capture the votes of people who don’t vote because people who don’t vote aren’t likely to vote.
77,302,580 people voted for Trump.
89,278,948 people were eligible to vote but didn’t.
That’s enough to win an election. I know they wouldn’t all vote the same way, but that’s a HUGE population – enough to potentially make a third political party relevant, for instance.
I know that you vote, and I know both major parties in the US suck. I think we’re generally in agreement here, so I know I’m probably preaching to a member of the choir. I’m just less sympathetic about it because I know that if everyone in the US who was eligible to vote but didn’t all voted with their intentions, upcoming elections would look very different. And I think it’s a combination of learned helplessness/defeatism and laziness/apathy that’s causing this.
As such, I will always advocate for the power of voting. And I will always admonish people who don’t vote and complain about the result.
Yup, we are mostly in agreement. I will push back on this though:
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken
For a lot of people, taking a day off work, to spend hours in line at a polling booth, while voter intimidation is kind of allowed, is a lot of effort. Especially when you factor in that they need to spend time researching the candidates and issues they’ll be voting on. I’ve lived in places where even getting registered was a huge pain, and took a lot of time. Where I currently live, voting is super easy, and I appreciate that, and I think it’s less of an excuse. But for a lot of people, it does take a lot of effort, and I find not voting in those circumstances more understandable.
But for a lot of people, it does take a lot of effort, and I find not voting in those circumstances more understandable.
There is a long way to go in some places to make voting more accessible, approachable, and available, yes.
I think that other political actions tend to take more effort and more work, or they tend to be less widely impactful.
Complaining online and sharing memes, for example, is easy, but does next to nothing.
Calling your local official or writing an email/letter to them can change local politics, but just like voting can be harder or easier depending on where you live, getting your message to go somewhere other than their garbage bin can take a lot of time and effort… probably more than voting. And even there, that’s only one politician you’ve influenced.
Larger political actions that are stronger than voting definitely exist, but I think the majority of them come with greater risk, more effort, or a larger time investment (like protests, running for local office, etc).
Voting sends a message to politicians nationwide, if not just statewide. And like I mentioned elsewhere, there’s little incentive for politicians to take the opinions of non-voters seriously.
If there isn’t a choice in whether the genocide support happens, I prefer the US to weaken and isolate itself globally by kneecaping its relations with other western nations.
If I said, I prefer Nazi Germany to not have allies while they are committing the final solution, I think you would understand why I have this position.
The genocide in America (of course, mostly of brown people, so don’t let that trouble you, it’s more of a concern for people like me and my family), the genocide in Ukraine, again, not your problem…
Glad you’ve decided only 1 genocide matters, the rest, meh, not worth your time.
To all those who stood up against “Genocide Joe”:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your internet slacktivism has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
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jsyk, the majority of ‘genocide joe’ social media posts were right wing propaganda
I mean sure there were some that chose not to vote because of Gaza, but the number doesn’t really make a difference in the final count.
More people abstained due to sexism honestly
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I’m not sure thats true. Many people had legitimate concerns that Biden was backing a genocide. I’ve never seen any stats showing that they were right-wing posts. Plenty of left-wing people were mad about that as well.
Hillary won the popular vote when she ran. I think most people abstained because Harris was a terrible candidate, who ran on terrible policies that went against what the voter-base wanted.
‘Genocide Joe’ was an alt-right psyop designed to catch up progressives with distaste for the realities of middle eastern politics
Either you are naive to propaganda, or are actively spreading it
It doesn’t really matter which is true though blocking you from my future lemmy experience serves to address both of your possible failings.
this claim requires evidence. who, when, where?
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No centrist believes this because no centrist can imagine opposing the genocide that remains the single policy any of them are actually willing to stand for.
You and everyone who repeats the “I hope you’re happy now” really are not helping. You’re mad, I’m mad, but please please get your fill of catharsis/smug self righteousness elsewhere please, blaming non/voters isn’t going to rebuild the Obama coalition that delivered a supermajority in Congress. The Democrats lost the youth turnout, Palestine (Russian/astroturf bots or no) were not the sole factor but a sharp tipping point that laid out reality bare.
Im not at all surprised that young voters who became politically aware during the Obama era or later were gradually disenchanted and sat this round out; when you look at it from their timeline they did all the right democracy things and got shit on over and over
And nothing substantial happened that might change their mind. Kamala rode that same trajectory through her campaign, even as VP she had a harder stance on Israel that suddenly evaporated once she was appointed the nominee.
Its genocide - the crime of all crimes - and the Democratic Party refused to seriously discuss the topic in public. I cannot seriously blame them for giving up on a party that refused to listen to them in good faith, and disappointed them time after time. That’s on the DNC for throwing that demographic away, and we need to recognize that. They’re not voting for Republicans ffs but they’ve received the message that they and their vote, isn’t important to the Democrats.
Genocide is the ultimate crime huh?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Izium_mass_graves
Or the genocide starting in America of people with skin the same color as I have.
It’s Trump, no matter who the dems put up you weren’t voting for them, you were voting against a rapist, pedophile traitor.
Fucking yes. I cannot believe we’re even having this argument. Nothing comes close.
I am absolutely not trying to downplay the barbarity and wanton cruelty of the Trump administration’s policies, but what we’ve seen so far doesn’t match the definition. Extrajudicial disappearances and zero due process for perceived or actual migrants is not the same thing as genocide. There’s no forced sterilization, rote murder, mass displacement, or deliberate attempt to destroy a collective people. CECOT is an overseas concentration camp, not a death camp - yet.
…
Dodged right around the mass graves?
The kidnapped children?
The destruction of culture through russification?
I don’t quite understand your argument here, all of those crimes fall under the umbrella term of genocide as well.
Yet the only ‘genocide’ lemmy will talk about is palestine.
I’ve seen a lot of mentions of other genocides on my instance, but what’s notable about the Palestinian genocide is that the US and the western world is directly involved in it.
Typically when I see this complaint it’s paired with a general vibe of wanting to deflect attention away from western atrocities. Not that I know enough to accuse you of that, but still.
So:
Maybe I should, I just only met a few and they all seemed like dicks, plus this was kind of kicked off by Oct 7.
When Europe got unpeaceful in the past bad shit happened, I don’t want more bad shit.
^ This is what forum sliding looks like disguised as progressive concern. Block and move on
edit: I’m pointing out right wing propaganda and I get downvoted? Fuck every one of you and I’m not putting in any more effort to keep the shit out of lemmy
no, it’s not.
thank God
Wow you’re post history is so rancid I’m blocking your entire instance
thank God
Maybe people wouldn’t call him “Genocide Joe” if he hadn’t backed a genocide. I always find it amazing that people blame the voters, instead of blaming the people with the power, the platform, and the money, who chose genocide over winning the election.
I think people are blaming the people who didn’t vote. They thought they were sending the message “I don’t like genocide”, but that was ignorant of them.
The message they sent was “Eh, either is fine. I’m fine with Trump or Harris. Whatever”. And then they took the moral high ground for doing so.
Which I also find understandable. I disagree with non-voters, but if both choices are terrible, and fight against what you want, I understand why people wouldn’t want to vote.
The proper way to communicate an opinion that “both choices are terrible” is to make your way to the polling station and either vote for something other than those two bad choices, or to decline or spoil your ballot.
Not voting says “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”.
People think it means “Give me something other than these two”, but it takes more effort to communicate that message.
Political activism requires effort, and it requires effort the right way. Not voting is political inaction.
I mostly agree with you, which is why I voted 3rd party, and I still recommend that others vote. But voting can take a lot of time and effort, which most people are short on. I think a lot of people would vote, if they thought their vote counted, but with the two major parties we have, it clearly doesn’t.
I see it as less of “I can’t be bothered to make the effort; anything is fine”, and more of “Both of you fight against what I want, why would I bother”
Because voting is one of the least effortful political action that can be taken, and it can send one of the biggest messages.
Democratically-elected politicians get their jobs by people’s votes. Their campaigns are based around getting votes. And they can look at numbers of how people are voting to adjust their platforms to capture those votes.
There’s little benefit for them to try to capture the votes of people who don’t vote because people who don’t vote aren’t likely to vote.
That’s enough to win an election. I know they wouldn’t all vote the same way, but that’s a HUGE population – enough to potentially make a third political party relevant, for instance.
I know that you vote, and I know both major parties in the US suck. I think we’re generally in agreement here, so I know I’m probably preaching to a member of the choir. I’m just less sympathetic about it because I know that if everyone in the US who was eligible to vote but didn’t all voted with their intentions, upcoming elections would look very different. And I think it’s a combination of learned helplessness/defeatism and laziness/apathy that’s causing this.
As such, I will always advocate for the power of voting. And I will always admonish people who don’t vote and complain about the result.
Yup, we are mostly in agreement. I will push back on this though:
For a lot of people, taking a day off work, to spend hours in line at a polling booth, while voter intimidation is kind of allowed, is a lot of effort. Especially when you factor in that they need to spend time researching the candidates and issues they’ll be voting on. I’ve lived in places where even getting registered was a huge pain, and took a lot of time. Where I currently live, voting is super easy, and I appreciate that, and I think it’s less of an excuse. But for a lot of people, it does take a lot of effort, and I find not voting in those circumstances more understandable.
There is a long way to go in some places to make voting more accessible, approachable, and available, yes.
I think that other political actions tend to take more effort and more work, or they tend to be less widely impactful.
Complaining online and sharing memes, for example, is easy, but does next to nothing.
Calling your local official or writing an email/letter to them can change local politics, but just like voting can be harder or easier depending on where you live, getting your message to go somewhere other than their garbage bin can take a lot of time and effort… probably more than voting. And even there, that’s only one politician you’ve influenced.
Larger political actions that are stronger than voting definitely exist, but I think the majority of them come with greater risk, more effort, or a larger time investment (like protests, running for local office, etc).
Voting sends a message to politicians nationwide, if not just statewide. And like I mentioned elsewhere, there’s little incentive for politicians to take the opinions of non-voters seriously.
To all those who stood with Genocide Joe & Kamala Cheney:
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!
Know that your support for genocide helped usher in Trump & has made a lasting difference in the world, and the JIDF thanks you for your service.
The cope of liberals thinking that Kamela ‘most lethal military’ Harris was going to be any different on foreign policy are brain dead.
Compared to the 5d megabrain who thinks she would have threatened to invade Greenland and Canada while making friends with Russia.
Honestly I prefer that. Isolating the empire and getting the rest of the world against the country facilitating genocide is good to me.
So wait, you want the US to oppose genocide, or you want them to commit more so everyone hates them?
You have to pick one.
If there isn’t a choice in whether the genocide support happens, I prefer the US to weaken and isolate itself globally by kneecaping its relations with other western nations.
If I said, I prefer Nazi Germany to not have allies while they are committing the final solution, I think you would understand why I have this position.
…
Cool…
Now you have many genocides, well done.
The genocide in America (of course, mostly of brown people, so don’t let that trouble you, it’s more of a concern for people like me and my family), the genocide in Ukraine, again, not your problem…
Glad you’ve decided only 1 genocide matters, the rest, meh, not worth your time.
I mean, I voted for neither. Sorry, the red line has to be somewhere in this “democracy”.