Prison seems the obvious one. It’s obviously (to me, that is) not desirable to deprive anyone of their freedom, but for persistently violent people I don’t think there’s a better solution, unfortunately.
I agree that separating people who do not abide by the contract of society is necessary, but I think we (America) are wrong to make it a punitive experience. Separate them and let them live their lives as comfortably as they can. Causing additional suffering does not seem to be necessary.
Currently trying to lock up as many of the populace all the numbers show cause less crime. At some point we are going to have to question if there is a higher percentage of psychopaths out of prison than in.
Edit: note, a large group of people would say “we need to lock up more people to solve it” and a large group of people would say “we need to let out all the not-psychopaths who aren’t a threat to society and then only arrest those who are a threat”. And somehow both would think they were humane. And propoganda would role out to convince the first group they should lock up the second group. Because compassion or empathy is a threat
Agreed. I don’t even believe in free will, so prison makes even less sense to me - in the sense that we’re punishing people for doing something they couldn’t not have done. That said, I have no doubt that the fear of imprisonment acts as a deterrent - at least to some extent. And just because someone can’t help themselves doesn’t mean they should be allowed to roam free, harming others.
Ideally, we’d place people like that on a private island with no one to harm, where they could still live a good life. But since that’s not realistic, prison it is. I still think prisoners should be treated well, no matter the crime. Punishment itself doesn’t make much sense to me - but the fear of punishment does. And that fear isn’t credible unless we follow through.
I remember listening to an episode of hardcore history about capital punishment, it detailed public executions throughout the ages, and the takeaway is this:
You could literally publicly rip people limb from limb with horses and rope, people are still going to steal, assault, and rape.
If seeing someone getting skinned alive isn’t enough of a deterrent, I don’t know why prison would be.
Sure, but the fact that fear of punishment doesn’t deter everyone, doesn’t mean it doesn’t deter anyone. Good example from my own life would be speeding; the fear of losing my license is the main reason I don’t do it.
I’ve been meaning to read some stuff about how to approach criminal justice if we don’t have free will, but I keep reading other stuff instead. So many books, so little time!
I still think prisoners should be treated well, no matter the crime.
Yes, absolutely. Even for the worst of the worst, their should be rehab attempts, whether it’s anger management, getting them away from gangs - whatever it is they need. I think there are only small numbers of people, if there are any at all, who are really irremediably violent and dangerous, but even for them I’m not exactly happy about putting them away indefinitely.
It simply isnt fair to the rest of society to place people who actively seek harm onto others, back on the street.
I think this is less of a case of ‘dont keep them in prison for the rest of their lives’ and more of a ‘we should improve prison conditions’ type of argument.
Right, but we mitigate that harm (good) by depriving people of their freedom (bad). It is necessary to do it, for the exact reasons you suggest - to reduce evil overall.
Prison seems the obvious one. It’s obviously (to me, that is) not desirable to deprive anyone of their freedom, but for persistently violent people I don’t think there’s a better solution, unfortunately.
I agree that separating people who do not abide by the contract of society is necessary, but I think we (America) are wrong to make it a punitive experience. Separate them and let them live their lives as comfortably as they can. Causing additional suffering does not seem to be necessary.
Currently trying to lock up as many of the populace all the numbers show cause less crime. At some point we are going to have to question if there is a higher percentage of psychopaths out of prison than in.
Edit: note, a large group of people would say “we need to lock up more people to solve it” and a large group of people would say “we need to let out all the not-psychopaths who aren’t a threat to society and then only arrest those who are a threat”. And somehow both would think they were humane. And propoganda would role out to convince the first group they should lock up the second group. Because compassion or empathy is a threat
Agreed. I don’t even believe in free will, so prison makes even less sense to me - in the sense that we’re punishing people for doing something they couldn’t not have done. That said, I have no doubt that the fear of imprisonment acts as a deterrent - at least to some extent. And just because someone can’t help themselves doesn’t mean they should be allowed to roam free, harming others.
Ideally, we’d place people like that on a private island with no one to harm, where they could still live a good life. But since that’s not realistic, prison it is. I still think prisoners should be treated well, no matter the crime. Punishment itself doesn’t make much sense to me - but the fear of punishment does. And that fear isn’t credible unless we follow through.
I remember listening to an episode of hardcore history about capital punishment, it detailed public executions throughout the ages, and the takeaway is this:
You could literally publicly rip people limb from limb with horses and rope, people are still going to steal, assault, and rape.
If seeing someone getting skinned alive isn’t enough of a deterrent, I don’t know why prison would be.
Sure, but the fact that fear of punishment doesn’t deter everyone, doesn’t mean it doesn’t deter anyone. Good example from my own life would be speeding; the fear of losing my license is the main reason I don’t do it.
Sure, but I wouldn’t exactly categorize speeding as an ‘evil’ act - just reckless.
But then there are malicious crimes. These kinds of crimes are driven by motivations which regularly transcend punishment.
I’ve been meaning to read some stuff about how to approach criminal justice if we don’t have free will, but I keep reading other stuff instead. So many books, so little time!
Yes, absolutely. Even for the worst of the worst, their should be rehab attempts, whether it’s anger management, getting them away from gangs - whatever it is they need. I think there are only small numbers of people, if there are any at all, who are really irremediably violent and dangerous, but even for them I’m not exactly happy about putting them away indefinitely.
Its simply a matter of harm mitigation.
It simply isnt fair to the rest of society to place people who actively seek harm onto others, back on the street.
I think this is less of a case of ‘dont keep them in prison for the rest of their lives’ and more of a ‘we should improve prison conditions’ type of argument.
Right, but we mitigate that harm (good) by depriving people of their freedom (bad). It is necessary to do it, for the exact reasons you suggest - to reduce evil overall.